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House | April 9, 2013 | Committee Room | House Education

Full MP3 Audio File

I'd like to call the meeting to order, and our Sergeant at Arms today is Bob Rossi, Charles Godwin and Doug Harris. We thank you for your assist as always. Our pages for the day, Carly Venters from New Hanover (??). B. Hammerton (??) is the sponsor. Todd Brown from Gaston. Torbett (??) is the sponsor. Bree Campbell from Halifax, Ray is the sponsor. And Alexander Fish from Union, Schafner (??) is the sponsor. The first bill we're going to take up is House Bill 127, art education as a graduation requirement. Representative Carney and Johnson. Representative Johnson. Yes, you may go. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and members of the committee. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Apologies. I was giving you a run, but I have in the PCS to have a motion for the PCS to be before us. ?? moves that. All in favor say aye. All opposed, no. Okay. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I was reminded coming up the steps today we like to quote people up here, famous people, and I was reminded of Abraham Lincoln who ran for public office so many times and then he'd lose and he'd come back and keep running, and he said once, "I will study and get ready and perhaps my time will come." Well, Linda Johnson, Representative Johnson, and Representative Adams, and Representative Glazier, and Representative Fisher, and numerous others, a couple that are no longer up here, have been working on this for six years and we have had numerous- a couple of arts commissions, that have taken us to a broadened height. DPI has worked with us and the different organizations representing education have worked with us and it seems that we've all come together around this bill today, and you can see what the bill days, states that the state Board of Education will require one arts education credit for graduation. I think everybody in here recognizes that the number one driver with companies looking to recruit people to work for them is creativity and innovation. That comes from having exposure to the arts with our children. Arts is more than just taking a piece of paper and painting a picture. It's music, it's dance, it's creative writing. It takes on many forms. What our bill says is that every child in North Carolina between grades six and twelve, and that was where we finally came to the compromise with the department and with the superintendent, that we would accept this that that graduation requirement could be met between six and seventh grade. I reiterate that, because before it had been just in high school. That means that over the course of seven years, a student has to take one course, have it documented, and it will count towards graduation. We ask that you support us and I don't know if representative Johnson would like to- [SPEAKER CHANGES] I'm not one to talk about something. I do want to mention a little bit about our journey to solving this problem. The key to this legistlation is that the state board of education shall establish a report, and that's the key to understanding. During our first and second commission meetings, or commission and committee meetings, I think it was, we discussed what we were- the ideas that we could not agree on, instead of working together as a team to try to solve the problem. The solution that the representative was talking about, Representative Carney was talking about, is something that we already had a solution for in math. We already have algebra that is carried over from the middle school. When we sit down to discuss the issue this year, the department of public instruction and the North Carolina-

of school administrators all agree that this was a way that we could bring a credit to arts education without cost possibly. There may be some cost, we're not sure they will report back to us after they finish their allotting, but I know of no one who is in opposition of this legislation, I believe we have the support of the NCAE and the North Carolina Association of School Administrators, DPI, and of course the Arts Council. We would hope that you would support this legislation, we're open for any questions. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I wanted to just add one think we might have left off. I thought of so many things I could say to you all, but I thought no, less is best. We've learned up here, but I think this stands on this merits but this if when it is passed, it will be implemented with the 2016 9th grade class. That's when it will start. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Rep. Ross? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you very much Mr. Chairman. This is a great bill, I'm glad that I got to vote for it every single time through its journey, and I, even though I know you had to change it to go back to the 6th grade, I think that that might be better because you might catch some students who are younger who get inspired by the arts and that might help keep them in school if the schools try to satisfy this requirement earlier on. So sometimes with- like fine wine, it just takes a little time and it comes out better in the end. And at the appropriate time Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a motion. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Okay, thank you. Rep. Adams. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Chair. The Representative beat me to that request to make a motion, but let me just say first of all it is a wonderful bill, the arts are truly basic, they are absolutely essential, they're nice, they're niceties, but they're also necessities I think, particularly for children as we try to expand their knowledge not only in creating things, whether they are performing, or whether they are using their hands to make things that gives- it opens so many doors to so many possibilities. I've just had the privilege to study the arts, and to be involved in the arts for over 40 years, all of my training is in the arts and I really know what it does for young people and how much they are going to learn about themselves and about their communities. So I commend the bill to you, it is a wonderful bill and I'm happy to see it come, and like the representative from Raleigh I'm happy to support it over and over again. Thank you very much and I hope the committee will support the bill. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Rep. Stam. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thanks. Whenever I hear that everybody's on board, I think of the Pirates of Penzance and how they rounded up everybody and put them on board. And I may be the first of all to establish my bona fides on this, I was a 2 year government funded artist in my youth, and my brother and my wife are lifelong professional artists, musicians, full time. However the problem is this, if you require- and also I teach 4th grade, I teach them how to sing as well as the bible. Okay. Having said all that, there's some things that are better taught to people who want to be taught than not. And the problem here is if it's a credit required for graduation, that means a credit that somebody's going to have to take that they may need for something else like math, or economics, or whatever, and if you have an 11th grader who comes into the system anew, what's going to happen to them? All sorts of practical issues. And how do you say you're dealing with basic education, when you're requiring for graduation something that is necessary for society but not necessarily necessary for every student? [SPEAKER CHANGES] May I address that, Mr. Chair? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Rep. Johnson. [SPEAKER CHANGES] If it were my children, they would certainly prefer not to take History either, but sometimes we feel those things are valuable. I do believe that arts education is so necessary and that this is the time for that to happen. Two things that

The economy and the education of an individual in itself are necessary, and the two things that are happening in the 21st century are two things that people need to be successful, it's creative thinking- critical thinking and creativity. And that's where the arts comes in to make a successful entrepreneur, a successful student, or as Representative Adams says, "A personal gain." [SPEAKER CHANGES] I wanted to share a quick story about why the arts are important and why they should be required. Sixteen years ago, when I was a county commissioner, our community went through a major debate about funding of the arts and the importance of arts in education, and that's where it became the big centre focus of discussion in our county, was that arts education was important. But I had a teacher during the budget period that wrote to me, and I had numerous teachers that wrote to me during our budget process, but I had one teacher that wrote and said, "Let me tell you why the arts are important and why it's important for students in middle school to have that exposure and why they should take it. I had a student," she wrote, "who was going to drop out of school. Had been telling me for three weeks and finally walked in one morning and said to me, Miss so-and-so, I am dropping out. Friday is my last day." She looked at him out of desperation and said, "What is it that you love to do? Tell me one thing you love to do and let me see what I can do about it." He said, "Well, I love to sing." She went to the principal an asked the principal, "This kid is worth saving. I would like to know if he could come in and sing the morning announcements." The principal let him, that child stayed in school, found his direction, and became a graduate in the school system. That's why it is important. There was another letter, and to Representative Stam's comment, from a mother who said, "I'm trying to find something that my child will be focused on." The child had some learning disabilities, and she said, "What is it that we can do?" and this teacher said, "Well, have you tried any of the electives with arts, dance, chorus, any of that?" and she said, "Oh, he's so shy." So she, again, another teacher in the system, worked with that parent and that student and the choral teacher, and the child found that they could sing, and it was never sang out in the class, would not do that, wouldn't join the chorus, but it was that one initiative that propelled that child and went on in high school, and then got into the chorus at the high school level. The arts do keep kids from dropping out of school, that's proven data that's out there nationally. It is- you know, I keep thinking, one course week we tell our students, "You have to do this, you have to do that." Well, at some point, you need to say, "You have to be exposed to culture, and we're just asking you- we're telling you to take one course during your seven year to graduation, and that will count." 75 to 80 percent of our students in this state are already getting at least one course in the arts. It's the others within the systems because it is not required that there's not every child, and every child, certainly, deserves to have that in their curriculum. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Pittman. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First I want to say that I have no doubt that Representative Johnson, Representative Conrad (??) have the best intentions for this bill. However, I know, personally, we had art in lower grades and I was so glad when it was over with because I had no talent for it. I think art is a fine thing and for those who have the talent and have the interest, it should be available, but is not an essential. In thirty years' administry, I'd never had any need for it. When I worked for fourteen years in the shipping department, Schneider Packaging, I didn't have a need for any artistic knowledge. Thank God somebody did have that knowledge and ability, because they were producing things I was dealing with in shipping, and I wouldn't have had that job without them, but this is just something I think should be an elective that's available to those who have a talent and have a need for it. I just guarantee you, I had-

Had to have passed an art course to graduate high school, I would not have been able to graduate. Algebra II and chemistry almost did me in, and but I have no talent for art, I love it when I see other people do it, but it would have killed me trying to get through high school having to pass it. And I just don’t think it’s something that we need to require of those who don’t have the talent or the interest in it. Just make it available for those who do but don’t force it on those who don’t. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES]Rep. Lucas [SPEAKER CHANGES]Thank you Mr. Chair. My inquiry may soothe or sustain some of Representative Stams concerns and that is the idea that those who espouse this bill perhaps we should coach and encourage those students who will not have obtained 9th grade by 2016 to begin early on, they have 2 years that they could begin early on to acquire that skill. So why not encourage them during that two year interlude, so that they won’t be faced with the situations that Representative Stam inquired about in fulfilling their curricular program, grades 9 thru 12 since they can start 6th. Can we encourage them to do that, starting early? [SPEAKER CHANGES] I think that reason for the 16th date was to make sure that they established, they will continue to have arts in middle school and they can carry those forward possibly, some students could acquire that course through mastery, they also talked about that. The state board will of course send back what they think is the best policy. [SPEAKER CHANGES]Representative Shepard [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Chair. I have a statement and a question. I told Rep. Carney earlier, I certainly support the arts. I took Music in high school and also took some piano at one point in time, I think it was very important to me that I was exposed to those arts. But I have an educator of principle that I asked about this because before I vote on anything I want to know how my local educators feel. He said I think it would create another class that would cause students to have to choose from, especially those who are taking AP electives. Keep the programs but not the Grad requirement. But I also, now that you mentioned to me that this could start in the sixth grade I think that might would answer some of his problems, because I feel like he was talking from the perspective of as high school principal and that it might would interfere with some of those students and their AP electives and so on and so forth. But if this in fact will start in the sixth grade I think that will remedy some of those concerns that he has and I do have a follow-up after you respond. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Chair [SPEAKER CHANGES]Yes [SPEAKER CHANGES] That was our problem in the 4 years prior. This process that DPI is planning on coming up with does start with the sixth grade but we have someone from DPI. [SPEAKER CHANGES]Christy from DPI could you step forth and address this…Identify yourself for us… and… yeah that right there…the mics not on. [SPEAKER CHANGES]There we go. Can you hear me now? [SPEAKER CHANGES]Yes [SPEAKER CHANGES]I’m Christy Lynn Shebert and I’m with arts education at the North Carolina Department of Public Instruction. Request permission to address the issue at hand. [SPEAKER CHANGES]You got it. [SPEAKER CHANGES] So I believe the question was about students being able to take the arts in middle grades and alleviating the concern of having the pressure to fulfill that requirement solely in high school. Is that correct?... So currently our basic education program says that students will have access to the arts in grades K-12 and that in the middle grades they will have access to all 4 arts disciplines and required to take at least take one each year. So we know we have students who are already fulfilling this without a formal requirement. They do have access to the arts of middle grades they can take them and as electives, they also should have access to the arts as electives in high school. In regard to the requirements issue my impression is that we already have a six unit elective requirement in high school that may be any combination arts education, career technical education or world languages and…

so it seems that one of those 6 elective requirements could be the slot that was taken. This would not be adding additional requirements for high school graduation. I had the opportunity to attend meetings with the joint select committee back in 2008 all along this journey and testify to previous commissions and committees and pulled together lots of research on the arts and I'm happy to address any of those questions. But I did want to point out that it we look at the most recent data on numbers of students enrolled in arts education courses from our statistical profile for the state, within a given school year, we have 163.6% of all students across the state enrolled in 1 or more arts course. Now it's higher than 100% because we have kids who are taking more than 1 arts class within a given year, especially in the middle grades. So it includes those, but it's also estimated as Rep. Carney mentioned that approximately 75 to 80% of students across the state are already taking an arts course in their high school career. So we don't feel- the department does not feel that this is going to cause undue hardship on the schools. The superintendents have been very supportive of this, through the arts education tax force, through the proposed legislation, and they like the flexibility of students being able to obtain that credit in a lot of different ways, that they would have options, and that it's not limited to high schools. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you ??. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Chair. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I have a follow up question, Mr. Chair. I wanted to ask the bill sponsors just off the top of my head, would carpentry qualify for an arts? [SPEAKER CHANGES] I'm sure wood turning would, I'm sure wood turning would. We have to look in the future. A lot of these will be under in the future with technology, a lot of these things will be under the technology program or different programs, but they will be classified as "art". [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Chairman, may I? I want to read a quote to you from Steve Jobs. I think everybody in here knows who Steve Jobs was and is. "The Macintosh turned out so well because the people working on it were musicians, artists, poets, and historians who also happened to be excellent computer scientists. " That's what the arts brings to our students. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Rep. Whitmire. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Chairman. First a point of appreciation, then I have a three point question- [SPEAKER CHANGES] Your mic's not on. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Okay. Test test. Alright. A point of appreciation and a 3 part question to follow. The initial bill was concerning from the standpoint of making sure it's not unfunded mandate. I greatly appreciate expanding to the 6-12th grades. When it comes to this, the push back was coming from a school system that is not a small school or low wealth system, and I see that's removed from the bill, which already has 77% of their high school students taking one of the art electives during their 4 years of high school. By expanding it, I think that is great because that allows you to sort of absorb what could be challenging especially with small schools. That being said, 1: Do you perceive any assistance having to maybe undermine their elementary arts to be able to spread their art capabilities to the middle and high schools to be able to achieve this? Number 2: Are there any licensure issues, and the big question is this: In the 2 school systems out of the 3 that I'm referring to in my district, we do art exploratory along with other exploratories in middle school. That is not a year long situation. But, it allows a greater breadth and scope of ETE, foreign language, arts, and a whole lot of peripheral that are very important to the whole person concept. Will those middle school exploratory classes count, even though they're not one year? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Well, I'd think ?? I might want to respond to that, but I will say on the licensure piece, arts teachers are licensed from 6 through 12th grade. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Question? [SPEAKER CHANGES] I think I'm on permission to respond? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Okay, in regards to taking away from

K5. I don't believe that that would be an issue, in that we already have the percentages of students enrolled in arts courses in grades 6 - 12 and grades K - 12. So, and as Representative Carney mentioned, our licensure actually goes K - 12 in each of the arts disciplines, so any arts educators--and we do have arts educators that are teaching in K-8 settings, or 6-12 settings, or any other combination you might be able to think of--there probably would not be any kind of unintended consequence to K-5 if this goes through. Licensure issue, we addressed.. exploratory in middle school, I think that the legislation says that DPI will look at what the options and guidance would be for meeting this requirement. I know in the conversations with the research team that we talked about flexibility, maximum flexibility for school systems. We know about the exploratory courses. There's also an emphasis with the state board right now on mastery-based learning, which allows students to meet requirements not just based solely on seat time in school. So, I think that what would be sought is maximum flexibility. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Okay, thank you, Christopher. I've got a number of people that want to speak. I'm wondering what is our position here.. we're gonna run out of time, we've got another bill, so.. I would like to move on here, with Representative ???. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yeah, just two very brief things. I did not have the question answered, what do you do about the 11th grader who comes in from another state? Are we gonna hold them back a semester if they can't fit into credit? And secondly, I'll point out, Chapel Hill had a requirement for decades that you had to learn how to swim to graduate. Now, I think it's very, very important to learn how to swim, but we had people at Chapel Hill that did all the coursework, and never went swimming, and didn't graduate! And they finally repealed that. The question, all of the argument about this is it should be widely available. What I have yet to hear is an argument about why it should be a requirement to graduate. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I will take just a stab at a comment about.. U.S. employers constantly are rating creativity and innovation among the top 5 skills that will increase in importance over the next 5 years. I believe, and I think the other bill sponsors and the numerous people that have signed onto the bill in support of this throughout this stay, we need to be on that competitive edge of our skilled workers. For them to be able to apply knowledge and proven outcomes through arts training.. this is a bill that says in 3 years we will start the implementation. We're asking the legislature, this legislature, to say to people that look at North Carolina, that we value the arts, and that we value our students and a creative workforce coming out of our schools in North Carolina. Here's some amazing charter schools that are already doing this; they're, of course, private schools that are doing it.. and there's some amazing public schools that are already at the table. It's those schools that have not stepped up and said we just don't value the arts enough to find that position, and we have a few of those in the state, but they're willing, if it's required of them. This is a 3 year process for DPI, where we have put in the bill they shall establish the procedures we're talking about. There is a lot of flexibility built into this with DPI. Students who are on the AP tracking, they.. it maybe that they are able to take a course of the summer. If they are in an intense dance group outside of school, it may be that they may be able to used as a credit. Those are the things that the DPI will be charged with looking at, the implementation and the criteria that you were talking about with the 11th grader that has not, that moved in here.. and by the way, I think there are 27 states that require arts for graduation, so we're in a minority right now, but I believe there will be a way to address those students who move here from another state that didn't have an arts requirement. I believe there will be that flexibility, and again

...of why this Bill drives me so much is the creativity that the Arts brings that will find a way, to work around those, those perimeters that might affect just a few children. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES]: Representative ??. Representative Graham. Representative Adams. [SPEAKER CHANGES]: Thank you Mr. Chairman. I don't want to prolong it. I wanted the person from VPI to talk a little bit about. Don't have to do that but what I didn't hear was, and that was not the question, about the value of the arts in terms of increasing student's performance academically. And I've got to tell you, being an Arts educator, knowing what the data and research says, the Arts are basic. They are as basic as Mathematics and Science and all those other things and the Arts do help students to reason, to organize, and do all the things that are necessary to do well academically. So, I hope we can move on and pass this Bill. [SPEAKER CHANGES]: Representative Horn. [SPEAKER CHANGES]: Thank you Mr. Chairman. I do believe you answered Representative Stam's concern. It was a concern of mine as well, but given the implementation as you've laid it out, I accept that. When it comes to requiring something like this in K or what is it? Sixth through twelve. I can't sing, I can't dance, I don't have any real ability to draw, any of that stuff. But I'll tell you what Art does bring to the party. Perspective. Perspective, which is key to success in Business, in Academia. It's key to success in life. It's perspective and that's what an Arts course would bring to our kids here in North Carolina. I urge this Committee to recommend favorably this PCS. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES]: Representative Fisher. [SPEAKER CHANGES]: Thank you Mr. Chairman. I just want to, I know I was a little bit late coming into the meeting, but I just want to emphasize the fact that Arts is a big part of what keeps children in school in the first place. When you don't find them being productive in other classes, if you get them signed on to an Arts class, that's the thing that inspires them and keeps them going toward graduation and beyond. And, this has been a long time coming. And I'm sensing a pretty good bit of support in here and I'm really hoping that people will vote in favor of this Bill to send it forward and thank you very much. [SPEAKER CHANGES]: Representative Elmore. [SPEAKER CHANGES]: Thank you Mr. Chairman. Two of the points that have been made basically deal with the idea of talent, and also about the idea the Arts make you feel good. I wanted to address the idea of talent first. We know all of our children in the school are not star athletes, but yet we require them to take a physical education course because we understand the importance of trying to be physically fit. Some are not talented physically, but yet we require them to take that course because of, and we're seeing more and more today, the problems with obesity, etcetera. It reminds me of this same situation. We understand that not everybody is going to be talented piano player, or a wonderful singer, but exposing them to it helps them with the understanding of it. Also, the Arts have, they go beyond this feel good and I think that's what we ran on for years. Saying the Arts make the kids feel good and a lot of people have that type perception. It really deals with job development these days. This Committee has been very committed to looking forward, especially with digital learning, because we're seeing the changing world in front of us. Representative Carney is correct. The job market now, as we move to a service based economy, you hear key words, entrepreneurship, collaboration, innovation, people that can work in groups, creativity. Because these problems are put before them for them to solve, those are essential job skills. Those are job skills that my kids in district 94 are not really getting. This would allow that to happen so when they get out, they can meet this new job market. I've never seen so much change in the past five years in education and in our economy and we've been forward thinking with the digital learning to try to look for the future. I think this bill does the exact same thing, to try to tackle this new economy. Thank you Mr. Chairman. [SPEAKER CHANGES]: Representative ?? [SPEAKER CHANGES]: Thank you Mr. Chair. I'll be really quick. I do have a question about the capacity. I know that we talked...

the capacity on the student end, I worry about the capacity on the teacher end, because I know in my district a lot of teachers go from school to school, because there are not enough art teachers and if we built in a lot more students taking art, I wonder if we have the capacity for us to serve all those additional students taking art. A second thing I’ll say, I love the Bill, I’ll support the Bill, but I do think that there are things like financial literacy and [literacy’s] that I think we could require that think would be a lot more suitable. So, I hope we would look at that, I mean we have people that are graduating that don’t know how to write a check or don’t know what credit is and don’t know how to balance books and things like that. I wonder if we are requiring such things why haven’t we looked at those essential cases for people to have basic life and live. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Johnson, do you have an answer to that? [SPEAKER CHANGES] I just want to say we have tried through the legislature for the financial point, that Bill did not make it, maybe it’s in the same string that this art education Bill is. As far as the availability of teachers, I believe DPI did address that, but if you’d like to explain it again. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Christy a short answer. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Quick answer. This is an addition to what I shared earlier, state wide we have just over 5200 arts educators, that’s 6.81 % of all teachers in the schools are art teachers. There was a physical report done with the commission last year in 2012, which stated that current capacity exist for at least one arts course per student currently. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you. The final person before I have Representative Ross is Representative [??] [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Chair. I’d like to directly answer, I think Representative Stam’s question. One of the things I’ve seen in arts through my 56 years here is that, if it remains an elective, as funding continues to get tight in education, more times than not funding is removed form those electives and pushed to the basics. I know that we had a problem with this some years ago when every one was talked about reading, writing and arithmetic, understanding that only one of those actually began with an “R”. What I’m hoping is that, with this becoming pretty much mandatory that it helps to build the professions, that I’m aware of, that can emerge from someone with a skill, a capability and a talent that comes from the art community. Professions, architects, I you can go down the list and name professions, our sporting teams, even their design of their uniforms and the colors that are put onto the uniforms is an artistic skill and capability. Not even to mention the economic impact just in North Carolina that we have from our arts community is tremendous. So, what this actually is, it promotes, I look at it like more of a technical type, where we might have used to teach shop or electrical HVAC, to teach professions. This is an opportunity to have this be taught as a profession and improve the job development in North Carolina. I’m in full support with that Mr. Chairman. Call the question. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Ross, I’m ready for your motion. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Chairman. I move that we give . . .This is a Committee substitute? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Its the PCS and goes to appropriations. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I noticed that, thank you Mr. Chairman. I move that we give the Committee Substitute for House Bill 127 a favorable report, unfavorable as to the original Bill and that Bill be referred to the Appropriations Committee. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Do you have a division? [SPEAKER CHANGES] You’ve heard the motion. All in favor of the motion say Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I call for division. [SPEAKER CHANGES] All opposed no. [SPEAKER CHANGES] The Ayes’ have and the motion is carried. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Committtee. Thank you. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Pittman, you had spoken, I hope you had said what you wanted to say. I was trying to get through here so we can do the next motion. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I was calling for division Sir, is what I was trying to do. [SPEAKER CHANGES] We’re kind of not in [inaudible] We got to [inaudible] but have to [inaudible] if we could get them done in this hour, we’re close to it, pretty close to it. Representative Halloway. [SPEAKER CHANGES] House Bill 452 is the PCS, I have a motion to have the PCS forward Representative Daughtery

Says that all in favor say aye all opposed no. ayes have it the motion carries.[SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you. Thank you so much me chairman and me chairman we have an amendment that is being passed out to start off with that simply changes the title. We did not anticipate the title being this long and so we want to have the perception that this is a friendly bill to allow folks to offer amendments. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Me chairman? Me chairman? Over here. We don’t have the PCS [SPEAKER CHANGES] I think we're headed there sorry. I thought we had already handed all that out as the pcs is coming to you what is also being passed out is just an amendment just to shorten the title that’s all it does so that if the folks have amendments they’d like to offer the title would not prohibit us at any point in committee or on the floor or wherever so that’s all that this amendment does is just to shorten the title and if we could just take up that amendment before we start discussion me chairman [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Blue I move adoption of the amendment me chairman. [SPEAKER CHANGES] We have a motion to adopt the amendment all in favor say aye [SPEAKER CHANGES] Aye [SPEAKER CHANGES]. All opposed no. ayes have it. The amendment is adopted. Representative Holloway? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Chair. folks this is House Bill 452 452 the 2013 school safety act and throughout all of our years in the legislature we've seen so many different pieces of legislature that deal with school reform as we just debated arts education and all those bills are very very important however if our kids aren’t safe all these bills really are in vain for me That’s really the most important thing we can do for our students and our school system. Will this bill offer a 100% secure blanket of safety to our children and our students? The answer is no I don’t think any bill can do that but without question this bill does some common sense things that will help us and help make our schools safe. very quickly I’m just going to walk through the components of the bill and I've got several other bill sponsors with me and I’m going to let them speak and go through the parts that they would like. but I’m just going to walk through the PCS very quickly with you the first and foremost important thing this bill does is it makes an effort to put more SRO officers in the school system there’s also a second component of that which creates a volunteer program which Representative Arp was kind enough to allow us incorporate into this bill and I'm going to let Representative Arp explain that part since it was his measure but the part of the bill in its original form it creates a 2:1 match for counties to help them put more SRO officers in the school system. The second thing it does is it puts panic alarm systems in every classroom much like we as legislatures we have panic buttons in our offices that we could press in case of an emergency. This bill would put a panic alarm system in every classroom so that the local law enforcement cold be alerted immediately. Part four puts in place school safety exercises. It requires that at least every two years each LEA must hold a full system wide school safety and school lockdown exercise with local law enforcement agencies that are part of the local board of education’s emergency response team. part five which is also a very common sense part puts in there that every school system should have a schematic diagram of the schools facilities given to the local law enforcement and for them to have a master keys that they can get instant access into the schools in case of a crisis every second is critical and we don’t want law enforcement to have to ram a door down or break glass let’s let them have key so that they can get instant access. part six creates an anonymous tip line which Representative Glazier said his county Cumberland had significant success doing that and we want to incorporate that part as well.it also calls for crisis kits to be placed strategically into the school system and that pretty much wraps up the highlights of the bill with the exception of what Representative Arp added I will tell you what the PCS does differently from its original it requires the local board of education to adopt an emergency response plan establishes the volunteer school safety resource officer program which Representative Arp will explain and it just makes conform and technical changes but again folks I’ll tell you this bill

Not 100 percent answer, but I don't think that any bill can provide that. But I can say that this is honestly the most comprehensive bill that has been proposed since the New Town tragedy, without question, and I think that we would be, well, I think that would be very unwise for us not to move forward with these kinds of policies because we don't want tragedies like that happening in our school systems. With that being said, I'm going to turn it over to explain this part of the bill as well. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Glazier [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Chairman. Thank you Representative Holloway, and members, and I'll try and be brief, but I do want to point out, aside from taking through a couple of things, I also want to point out where some of it came from so that you can have the context for any discussion, and what I will say is to follow Representative Holloway's point out to call NCSL late last week, and we talked and I asked them, they're tracking of course school safety bills all across the country, and they did say that it is safe to say that this bill is the most comprehensive bill in the country on school safety and they are tracking it, and every move that we are making on it, and going to be highlighting it to our colleagues across the country. And it is a bipartisan bill, so while we sometimes have our partisan differences, it is nice on an issue like child safety, to have a real bipartisan consensus and to do something that will actually save kids lives and make schools safer. So with that, and if I'll go through this very quickly, Representative Holloway has already talked to you about section 1, which adds SRO officers on a 2 to 1 match. The other thing to point out here is we added in Charter schools so that we can make sure that they can apply as well, and to make sure that the LEAs can use this money for training as well as for hiring, because obviously training for SRO's for elementary schools is a new issue, and there has got to be real cognitive and social kinds of development and training that we didn't necessarily have to do for high schools, although it has its own set of issues. Section 2 of the bill is a bill, a part that also adds on a 1 to 1 match, substantial additional dollars this year and next year for the hiring of school psychologists, social workers, and guidance counselors. Despite the fact of New Town and the tragedy it was, the biggest threat to schools is internal, and not external: Columbine as a good example. The most that we can do is to have more bodies gaining intel in the schools. There was a really good article our state legislative magazine and another one in the American School Board Journal this past year, that said our first line of prevention is having the best intelligence, and these folks are the ones that can do that. In doing that, in section 2b of your bill, you'll see that we adopted actually a provision that Representative Larry Bell has been on for quite some time, which is if we're going to have school counselors and we're going to have additional school counselors they ought of be told that they can just do their job, as opposed to being given everybody else's job to do. So no longer would school counselors be assigned Testing Coordinator full-time responsibilities, as opposed to really acting as guidance counselor for kids which is what we want them to be doing. Section 3, the panic alarm section, came about as a result of New Town. One of the first studies and came out, and conversations was out on CNN and then on NPR by a couple of safety experts across the country, and they said one of the easiest and cheapest things you could do, was to hook up an alarm from each classroom directly to the first provider, so that if something is happening somewhere else in the school, there would be a way to kick it in instantly. Some school districts are doing it now. Wake I think is undergoing it, my system is undergoing it, but there's also a lot of systems that can't afford it and this is a way to help them do something that is cheap and effective. You'll see in section 4, we require safety table top exercise. This is one of the classic lessons of New Town, and that is you've got to practice what you're going to do, and so there has got to be, both system wide and at each school, practice exercises to deal with a crisis situation. As you may recall in New Town one of the reasons the teachers were able to handle it so well is they had just gone through a table top exercise recently in doing that. And if you want to know we're on the right track on this, last week's education week, the New Town Commission issued its school safety report following the tragedy, and one of the specific things they said was that you have to have the table top exercises being done on a routine basis. You'll find on part 5 the school schematic and this Representative Holloway referred to, the thing to know [END]

there as this talks about whenever you make a change to exit and entrances, as well as you add buildings, the police need to know about that. If they're running to a place, they don't need to know that you've changed the exits on them, and so sometimes we provide the original diagram of the school, but then when we go about and renovate it, we never give them a new diagram. Section 6, the anonymous tips line, I talked with, just in the back actually with Secretary Shanahan's folks, I think the Secretary is going to be instituting a statewide anonymous line so I think the system can either go with the statewide line, or create their own. In my district we created one 3 years ago on a grant, and there were in those 3 years, there were over 300 calls, but there was over 80 identified, substantiated calls that either saved an incident, or prevented one that they thought might have happened had they not had the anonymous tip line, so it is well worth it. The school component, Part 7 the school safety component, do you remember, we took out to eliminate paperwork, the school safety plans last year, but we still have school improvement team plans. Well, it's what Representative Holloway said, you're not going to be able to educate them if they're not safe. So this just makes sure that within the school improvement team plan the safety component not only is thought about, but actually reviewed by the superintendent which hadn't been required under the law, and by the school board, which hadn't been required under the law, so they actually had to meet and adopt those plans so that they know what's happening in each school and you'll see that on page 5. If you look further, the Crisis Kit section of the bill is actually a recommendation by the International Association of the Chiefs of Police and so we've adopted that. And then, if you look, finally the last pages, Representative Arp will talk about, but there an addition of the volunteer schools safety resource officer program, emphasis that it is volunteer, volunteer both by people, and by the sheriff, and he'll talk about that. And I guess I would close by saying that nearly every provision in this bill is something other states are looking at, or enacted, but no state had put it together, and I think the impetuous should go to all of us here on a bipartisan basis, and to the speaker of the House who actually allowed this tasks force to meet and put this bill together, and I hope that you will join me in voting to move the bill on, and I thank you. With that, Mr. Chair, I do have an amendment of something that was left out. Okay, is the amendment passed out? Yeah, go ahead Mr. Blane. This was just a sentence that we, in putting in Representative Arp's section, that we forgot to add it in, and it's just to put it in that the volunteers accepted does also have to receive training on social and cognitive developments, and any other standards the sheriff wants them to have if they're going to be working with children. So, it's the same thing we had in the other part of the bill, but we're just adding it back in the volunteer section. [SPEAKER CHANGES]We'll pass that amendment now. Representative Rodan? [SPEAKER CHANGES]Question for Representative Glazier. [SPEAKER CHANGES]Okay. [SPEAKER CHANGES]Representative, could you just tell me the costs of the anonymous tip line? [SPEAKER CHANGES]Yeah, the anonymous tip line for Fayetteville, for Cumberland, we got a $50,000 grant for a 2 year period, and so you'll see there's also a sentence in that bill that says DPI's to alert all districts to federal, state, and private money that's available, because there is a bunch of private money available for support of these tip lines. And I can give you, the one that we were using out of New York City, actually. [SPEAKER CHANGES]Does everybody got a copy of the amendment? [SPEAKER CHANGES]Mr. Chairman? [SPEAKER CHANGES]Representative Horn moves for the adoption of the amendment. Any discussion on the amendment? [SPEAKER CHANGES]Mr. Chairman? [SPEAKER CHANGES]Yes, Mr. Torbett [SPEAKER CHANGES]Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If I could ask the presenter a question. [SPEAKER CHANGES]You may. [SPEAKER CHANGES]Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Representative Glazier, the bill's very well drafted, and I support the bill. My concerns go a little bit deeper in that the drill down of the technique that we provide for the kids in the classroom, and the teachers, and the administrators. It's just point on, it comes to my attention through an exercise that was run back in my district, that some of the technique now is a simplistic technique where they pretty much huddle the kinds in one area of the classroom, and in doing this exercise, it's not a happy outcome. That when everyone was centralized at one location, the outcome was not successful. But some of the more practiced techniques of retaliation

And exiting out exterior windows. That seemed to be, well actually during the exercise, it proved to be a more favorable outcome. So I hope that as we just enact this legislation openly, that we will do more than that. That we will ensure that the techniques that are applied through this legislation, in the classroom, are actually techniques that provide the most successful outcome should the worst possible incident occur. That's my concern. [SPEAKER CHANGES] And Representative Torbett, I completely share it. And if you look on page seven, lines twenty-two to twenty-five, we specifically tasked the Department of Public Safety under the Secretaries plan of creating the Center for Safer Schools in conjunction with the Department of Justice, and DPI, to develop those school emergency in crisis training modules, so that i looks at the best practices, and I think it does exactly what you're talking about. Which is making sure that we're actually training and teaching the best way to respond, and not sort of the tornado drill, just adapted kind of thing. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Chairman for follow up. [SPEAKER CHANGES] That's it. Go ahead. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Chairman. Thank you Representative Glazier on that comment. Do you feel satisfied that, inside your legislation, there is a report back language, so not only do we enact something, but we actually get feedback, and a guarantee that what we have enacted is providing the best possible outcome. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes, I do actually, and I think in several places. And so I'm certainly willing, and I think we'd be willing at the next stop to add in anything, a different reporting mechanism, but I feel very comfortable about that, and I suspect as well, to the extent that there are the granting and appropriations process outcomes are going to be really important, and those processes. [SPEAKER CHANGES] We're going to polish here. We got a motion to accept the amendment. All in favor there, say aye. All oppose no. Ok, we got some other presenters here. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Mr. Chairman, if the other two have some brief comments, and then Representative Arp wants to quickly explain his volunteer SRO program, and then we'll be finished. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Okay. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Very briefly, members, you note that we've tried to design this so that you can implement it, and tailor it to local usage. I appreciate Representative Torbett's concern, and that's the reason we want to have the LEAY drill every two years, and the school wide drill every year, so that you can tailor this to suit each individual school. We recognize that the schematics are different for various schools, and some schools may modify and hone their process in a way that other schools do not. It's all designed for the matter of safety, and in the first sections of this bill, we recognize that not everybody is going to have the resources to implement the floor plan immediately. Some affluent school systems may have more resources to implement this faster than some of the schools who are challenged, and so we've designed it purposefully this way. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Faircloth. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you Mr. Chairman. Just a couple of words. This bill represents the bringing together of best practices by law enforcement, and the protection community, and from the educational community, and the protection they try to do. And what it does, I think, is give the clues, and the powers to these two groups to work together for the best protection for our children. The Chief's and Sherrif's are definitely on board. They are willing, and want to work with the schools, and the schools are certainly are willing to work with law enforcement because we've all seen what the problem is. I certainly do recommend this whole deal on the behalf of law enforcement. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you ladies and gentleman. My piece of this is what I termed "The Gold Star Officer Program". The genesis of this came to me when we realized we had four school shootings last year, four, in the K-12. That doesn't even include what was happening in the University level or in other shootings outside the public places of assembly. I had folks in my district, who are retired law enforcement officers, that came to me, and said, "What can I do? I can't do some things, but here is what I can do." And so that was the genesis of this idea about volunteer school resource officer program. We're calling it "Gold Star Officer Program". What this does is allow the counties, as voluntary, the Sheriff, or the local police chief can...

-institute this program where they can come in and vet the volunteers just as they would any other deputy, they can go through the firearm and education training and be certified as a school resource officer, and can go into the schools and be utilized on a voluntary basis. The great thing about this is America is at its best when we used volunteers, and these people bleed red, white, and blue. They want to help and this is a way, and I think the public feels very safe with law enforcement personnel in the schools protecting the students, and this follows along with that. I was so pleased to marry these ideas about additional resources from school psychologists and SROs, but this also allows a different perspective of volunteers. The people who qualify for this are people with retired law enforcement experience, people who are in the military police and have military police background and training, that are either reserve or honorably discharged, they can all be a part of this. It's totally discretionary, they're under the control and direction of the police chief or sheriff at all time, they have arrest powers just like SROs, so I would answer any questions regarding this, but this is basically the piece that we want to bring in. [SPEAKER CHANGES] What we've got is a number of people who want to speak and I'm going to take them in the order I take and then it may be a little off from what has just been said, so you can raise that question at the time you are. Representative Holloway? [SPEAKER CHANGES] That completes our presentation ??. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Shepard? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes, sir. Representative Holloway, if your local school system already has an emergency response plan in place, will that suffice for this, or will they be required to develop a new one that would be accordingly? [SPEAKER CHANGES] I'll let Representative Glazier answer that one, but in my opinion it would suffice, but I may be wrong. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I agree that it would as long as it's now reviewed by the superintendent and by the Board of Education so that everybody kind of knows what we're doing and we're working on the same thing game plan. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Brandon. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just wanted to say that I'm kind of jealous I didn't get to be on this bill. It's so perfect, it's a really good bill, but I wanted to say that from all the school counsellors that I hear from all the time that this is really good for them in terms of they get to do what they do, as a person who's only here because of a school counsellor who took time to do their job and I realize that they don't get to do that any more. I really appreciate you guys putting that in a bill. I do have a question about the volunteer part. When you say volunteer, at the end of your comments you said they were retired law enforcement. Can anybody volunteer or do they have to have some type of police training or something close to that, or is anybody can say, "Hey, I want to be a volunteer"? [SPEAKER CHANGES] I can answer that. In short, they have to have law enforcement background, whether it be military or former ?? police officer, but I'll let Representative Arp ??. [SPEAKER CHANGES] That's correct. To qualify as a volunteer you have to have that police training in your background. Again, that goes to the confidence that the public has that these are school resource officers. We also put in there additional training- volunteering from military-police background. So one of those two qualifies you, but the chiefs and the sheriffs vet the volunteers as they would any other deputy. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Fisher. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. For a comment and then for a motion: I have just a great admiration and appreciation for the bipartisan work that's gone into this bill and the thing that is most heartening to me is that we are getting ready to set, once again, North Carolina is going to set the example for the rest of the country in healthy ways to approach the school safety issue, and I appreciate the bipartisan aspect, the fact that you all worked together to bring us this really comprehensive bill, and Mr. Chairman, at the appropriate time I would like to move for a favorable report. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Elmore. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I was going to make a motion-

[SPEAKER CHANGES] Time but I think Representative Fisher would probably do a better job with it considering all the amendments, and PCS’s and everything else. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Graham. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think this is probably one of the best things we’re doing this legislative session this year. Probably the premier bill, and I commend the bill sponsors for using their imagine and coming together in the bipartisan way. I do have a question. I love every aspect of this legislation. My question is, why are we not fully funding this, as opposed to that match to local school districts. Especially Tier 1 counties, like the ones that I come from that may not have the financial capacity to do that. That’s my question and a concern. [SPEAKER CHANGES] And I think all of us certainly understand that. We were trying to operate within the confines of the budget circumstances we face. I think that Representative Holloway is one of the appropriations chairs and certainly knows it as well as anyone here. And I think the goal was to leverage money so that we are putting out essentially 34 million over a two-year period, but it’s really leveraging about 70 million. There are districts that can match. You’ll see some language in there that need-based comes first in these grant proposals. And it will require the systems also to pick which one is the biggest priority for them. But it was really a question of just extraordinarily tight resources, trying to leverage it, and getting the most we possibly could. I hope there will be an opportunity for more later, but I think in candor, given where we are, this is as good as we can get right now. [SPEAKER CHANGES] I agree with Representative Glazier Everything he said is true. And we just feel this is important enough that we need to get moving, get the ball rolling. And as was said, there’s always an opportunity to put more in later. But considering the budget situation we have, it just has to be dollar amounts we can afford. So that’s where we started. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Warren. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Chair. This will be for any of the bill sponsors. I noticed in part two, when you talk about increased funding for school psychologists, guidance counselors and social workers, the one position, the duties of the school counselor, you went to some length to enumerate those. To be very specific, that the direct services do not include the coordination of standardized testing and that the support activities also do not include the coordination of standardized testing. I can understand from the emails I’ve received from school counselors, I guess a good deal of their time has been devoted to serving in that capacity, and taking them away from their primary responsibilities. So it begs the question, if they’ve been pulled away from that because of cuts in the staffing due to the budget crisis we’ve had for the last four years or so, how are the schools going to offset the loss of being able to utilize them for any ?? of time in that capacity? [SPEAKER CHANGES] Well Representative Warren, I’m assuming you’re talking about the standardized testing and how they’re going to be able to take care of that? I suppose the administration may have to kick in and help a little more. I can tell you from my exposure in the school system and the six years that I spent teaching full-time, that basically the guidance counselors, they just administered tests. That’s basically all they did. And Representative Glazier hit the nail right on the head. A lot of the problems with school violence is internal. And they need to be there to help these children and students who need those services. Again, we put the additional funds in there to provide grants to LEA’s so that they can hopefully bring more of these folks in so they can spend more of their time helping the kids who need the help. But again, schools systems, I think the administrators, they can find a way. I think the kids’ safety and making sure these internal problems don’t occur would far exceed any test or anything they could ever take. But I’ll let Representative Glazier speak to that as well. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Glazier. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you, Mr. Chair. And thank you, Representative Holloway and Representative Warren. And also if you turn on page two, to the section you were referring to, but also the section right underneath it 2C, provides for each LEA to develop a transition plan for implementing that, to make sure those duties are taken care of in different ways. And of course Representative Bell may could talk about this maybe more than anybody, but I agree with everything Representative Holloway said, it will require the people to pick up, but the one people we don’t want picking up these duties anymore are the people who are the trained…

...wants to be working with kids so it may require a different plan for different schools, but we are asking each ???? to look at that and I will say that we've run this bill past all of the educational groups and have not had any opposition to this clause. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Follow-up, Mr. Chair. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Yes. I thank you for addressing that. That was a concern expressed to me by some school officials. And, I just want to say, in conclusion that it's an excellent bill. I commend you all for the hard work you put forth on it; look forward to voting for it. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Representative Fisher, I'm ready ??? The motion should be favorable to the committee substitute as amended. Rolled into the original. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Right. [SPEAKER CHANGES] And we are gonna send this to appropriations. [SPEAKER CHANGES] Thank you. You took the words right out of my mouth. I move that we give the proposed committee the substitute as amended a favorable report unfavorable to the original bill with a re-referral to appropriations. Thank you very much. [SPEAKER CHANGES] You've heard the motion. All in favor of the motion say Aye. [SPEAKER CHANGES] AYE. [SPEAKER CHANGES] All opposed, No. The Ayes have it. The motion's carried.